E36M3 #1399

Thursday, June 21, 2001 13:44:44

This digest contains the following messages:

#1. RE: [E36M3] Suspension set up - from Seth Thomas
#2. replacing spring pads - from Jeff Stowe
#3. Re: flywheel rattle - from Paul England
#4. Rear seat disassemble - from David Morad
#5. Re: [E36M3] Rear seat disassemble - from Andrew E. Kalman
#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle - from Chester Wong
#7. Wheel Bearings - from Steve D'Gerolamo
#8. Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle - from Matt Henson
#9. For sale Wheels and Track tires - from Ahmad Lutfeali
#10. Yesterday: the Good, the Bad, the Ugly (longish) - from Jim Bassett

-------------------- 1 --------------------

#1. RE: [E36M3] Suspension set up - from Seth Thomas
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:08:37 -0400 From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Suspension set up Don't put the camber plates on a street car. The reason being is that the only ones available that are good are from TC Kline, Ground Control, and Turner. These plates do not have bushings in them and are meant for race only applications. So they are made to use the smaller diameter springs like on a coilover setup. The Ground Control can be adapted to use the normal diameter springs but it is not recommended. Let me know if you have anymore questions on these. Seth Thomas www.m3ltw.com <http://www.m3ltw.com> -----Original Message----- From: Scott King [mailto:vw8vgti@hotmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2001 12:55 PM To: E36M3 Subject: [E36M3] Suspension set up Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:40:25 -0400 From: "Scott King" Subject: Suspension set up Folks, I'm not too far from purchasing new suspension components for my 97 M3 and I was wondering about the necessity of camber plates. Right now the plan is to go with the H&R Sport/Koni combo and I was wondering if I am going to NEED to get camber plates for the fronts and some method of adjustment in the rear to get the alignment in spec. I had to go with a cam bolt set up on my GTI and I was curious as to the experience of you folks with the H&R/Koni combo? The car is mainly my fair weather daily driver and although the camber plates would be cool, the car does not see track time so therefore I'm not going the plate route unless it's necessary. Any input would be greatly appreciated. Scott (97 M3/83 GTI) _____ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com <http://explorer.msn.com> ************************************************************* List Commands UNSUBSCRIBE - (in subject line) unsubscribes you from the mailing list. DIR - sends a listing of files available in the list's GET directory. GET filename1.ext,filename2.ext - sends the requested file(s). To issue a command/request to the server: Send a message with the command you wish executed as the subject of the message. *************************************************************

Reply to: Seth Thomas

Top

-------------------- 2 --------------------

#2. replacing spring pads - from Jeff Stowe
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:17:00 -0700 From: Jeff Stowe <jrstowe@pacbell.net> Subject: replacing spring pads After reading Jim Powell's write up on replacing his spring pads and following a couple of threads on this list regarding spring replacement, it seemed like replacing my spring pads was a simple enough process that even a bozo like me could handle it. Wrong! So I try following all the steps and I can't get any tension off the spring pad at all. I am running the H&R sport springs which are a little shorter than stock which should make this even easier, right? I even tried using a spring compressor but couldn't get the spring compressed enough to take any of the force off the spring pad. Granted it was not the appropriate compressor for a BMW. It was way too big for this application. So what am I doing wrong? I've reviewed Jim's write up and the previous threads and it seems like the one thing I may have been doing wrong is I only jacked up one side of the car at a time. Do both rear wheels need to be off the ground at the same time? Second Question, I am replacing the rear pads primarily for cosmetic reasons. The H&Rs drop the rear end too far IMO and car loses all its rake. Will the thicker spring pads have any effect on the suspension geometry and handling? It doesn't seem like it would have any effect but some confirmation would be comforting as I am heading to Thunderhill next week. As always, I greatly appreciate any help or comments. jeff 98 M3/4 - with a saggy butt

Reply to: Jeff Stowe

Top

-------------------- 3 --------------------

#3. Re: flywheel rattle - from Paul England
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:14:34 -0400 From: "Paul England" <ettsn@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: flywheel rattle Well, I'll try to clarify. From idle, a lighter flywheel is easier to spin up to speed but doesn't have as much total energy once up to speed. Because of conservation of mass and energy, any extra effort in spinning up the disc (minus frictional losses) creates potential energy that will be available later in the process. Think of hammering a long nail into a piece of increasingly denser wood. At first, a lighter hammer will make for easier work, but as the process gets more difficult, a heavier hammer will allow you to impart more force. Maybe that's a poor example, but the energy you impart onto the flywheel doesn't just wither away. It's still there for you to exploit. Better? -Paul England > From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> > Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle > > Paul, > I'm not sure I follow your explanation of the effect > of a lighter flywheel. What does "A lightweight > flywheel does not, in fact, free up any horsepower > at all. It merely transfers the effect from a higher > gear to a lower one. " mean? > > It is true that a lighter flywheel does not cause the > engine to create any more power but it does decrease > the amount of power required to accelerate the mass. > This is like that wheel vs. unspring weight discussion > we had months ago. It's true that the affect of the > rotating intertia (including the flywheel) makes a > bigger impact in lower gears since there's a bigger > ratio of flywheel acceleration to vehicle > acceleration. But a light flywheel does not hurt > acceleration in the higher gears. Also a light > flywheel allows the engine to rev more freely when not > under load (heal and toe downshifts can be much > faster). > > It will show up in an intertial dynamometer and this > change in "power" will be equivalent to the change in > acceleration that you get in the gear that takes as > long to accelerate as the dyno does to pull (1st > order). Probably 2nd gear. > > There are tradeoffs - it makes it harder to smoothly > engage the clutch. The engine has to be revved to a > higher RPM for a launch. It can rattle the gearbox if > you don't switch to a spring-centered clutch disk. > > My .02.. > -Matt

Reply to: Paul England

Top

-------------------- 4 --------------------

#4. Rear seat disassemble - from David Morad
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 12:22:44 -0500 From: "David Morad" <Dogdave@msn.com> Subject: Rear seat disassemble Does anyone know how to disassemble the rear fold down seats in a '97 M3? I am interested in installing an amp and crossover on the back of the seat and would like to run the wires inside the seat. Thanks David

Reply to: David Morad

Top

-------------------- 5 --------------------

#5. Re: [E36M3] Rear seat disassemble - from Andrew E. Kalman
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:42:34 -0700 From: "Andrew E. Kalman" <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Rear seat disassemble Re: >Does anyone know how to disassemble the rear fold down seats in a '97 M3? I >am interested in installing an amp and crossover on the back of the seat and >would like to run the wires inside the seat. Good question -- I was faced with this problem (I wanted to mount a bracket to hold my laptop on the backside of the rear fold-down passenger seat) and it certainly wasn't immediately obvious how to take the seat apart. I didn't pursue disassembly further ... In then end I used Aluminum rivets (1/4" hole?) to fasten the bracket to the seatback. It has held up very well, suggesting that the seatback material (i.e. the side you see from inside the trunk) is adequately strong and thick to hold up to riveting. I think it's a plastic sheet beneath that "carpet" material. Regards, -- ______________________________________ Andrew E. Kalman, Ph.D. aek@pumpkininc.com

Reply to: Andrew E. Kalman

Top

-------------------- 6 --------------------

#6. Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle - from Chester Wong
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 10:42:38 -0700 (PDT) From: Chester Wong <chester_p_wong@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle But I would think that the stored up energy is only good for something like dumping the clutch. Sure, it'll give you extra zip off the line, but....once everything is directly coupled (clutch engaged all the way with no slip) I would think that the extra mass of the heavier flywheel would just get in the way for acceleration. Sure, if you want to coast up a hill, the LTW flywheel equipped car will slow down more, but if you have your foot on the gas, you would be good to go. Chester --- Paul England <ettsn@mindspring.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:14:34 -0400 > From: "Paul England" <ettsn@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: flywheel rattle > > Well, I'll try to clarify. From idle, a lighter flywheel is easier to spin > up to speed but doesn't have as much total energy once up to speed. Because > of conservation of mass and energy, any extra effort in spinning up the disc > (minus frictional losses) creates potential energy that will be available > later in the process. Think of hammering a long nail into a piece of > increasingly denser wood. At first, a lighter hammer will make for easier > work, but as the process gets more difficult, a heavier hammer will allow > you to impart more force. Maybe that's a poor example, but the energy you > impart onto the flywheel doesn't just wither away. It's still there for you > to exploit. Better? ===== __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Reply to: Chester Wong

Top

-------------------- 7 --------------------

#7. Wheel Bearings - from Steve D'Gerolamo
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 14:04:04 -0400 From: "Steve D'Gerolamo" <steved3@idt.net> Subject: Wheel Bearings SKF makes an excellent bearing...many of the racers seem to think so. I had a chance to see Michael Schumachers's 2000 F1 car yesterday (its currently at Ferrari's NJ headquarters) and SKF is one of their sponsors (at least there's an SKF / Mahle decal on the side of the car). I sell the wheel bearings as a kit for $115.00 per side which includes the bearing, 46mm collar nut, inner dust seal and outer dust seal. My bearing choice for the E36 is either SKF or FAG. SD ================================== Steve D'Gerolamo - The Ultimate Garage - Tel 201-262-0412

Reply to: Steve D'Gerolamo

Top

-------------------- 8 --------------------

#8. Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle - from Matt Henson
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:03:30 -0700 (PDT) From: Matt Henson <hensonator@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: flywheel rattle Once the clutch is dumped all of that energy has been translated into tire spinning and some acceleration. After that it slows you down. You can get the same energy for a launch by revving the engine a little higer. It's not good for the longetivity but it works. The hammer analogy doesn't model this system very well. I can't really think of a clean analogy to use but the physics aren't too complicated so maybe it's not necessary. -Matt --- Paul England <ettsn@mindspring.com> wrote: > Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 13:14:34 -0400 > From: "Paul England" <ettsn@mindspring.com> > Subject: Re: flywheel rattle > > Well, I'll try to clarify. From idle, a lighter > flywheel is easier to spin > up to speed but doesn't have as much total energy > once up to speed. Because > of conservation of mass and energy, any extra effort > in spinning up the disc > (minus frictional losses) creates potential energy > that will be available > later in the process. Think of hammering a long nail > into a piece of > increasingly denser wood. At first, a lighter hammer > will make for easier > work, but as the process gets more difficult, a > heavier hammer will allow > you to impart more force. Maybe that's a poor > example, but the energy you > impart onto the flywheel doesn't just wither away. > It's still there for you > to exploit. Better? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Get personalized email addresses from Yahoo! Mail http://personal.mail.yahoo.com/

Reply to: Matt Henson

Top

-------------------- 9 --------------------

#9. For sale Wheels and Track tires - from Ahmad Lutfeali
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 18:35:12 -0000 From: "Ahmad Lutfeali" <m3_racer99@hotmail.com> Subject: For sale Wheels and Track tires <html><DIV> <P>I have a set of M Contour 17*7.5 clones with GForce RA1 245/40/17. Two of them have only 2 track days. The other two have 4 track days. I paid around $1200 from Tirerack (mounted, balanced, heat cycled). First $600 takes the wheels and tires. </P> <P>On a second note, I have a set of original M Contour 17*8.5 (the real ones from BMW) any offers?<BR><BR>Ahmad</P> <P><BR><BR> </P></DIV><br clear=all><hr>Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at <a href="http://explorer.msn.com">http://explorer.msn.com</a><br></p></html>

Reply to: Ahmad Lutfeali

Top

-------------------- 10 --------------------

#10. Yesterday: the Good, the Bad, the Ugly (longish) - from Jim Bassett
Top
Date: Thu, 21 Jun 2001 11:35:13 -0700 From: Jim Bassett <jbassett@geysernetworks.com> Subject: Yesterday: the Good, the Bad, the Ugly (longish) So, I had my car in the shop for routine service (Inspection II), compression check, and replacing the left rear wheel bearing. Inspection Service done, compression check looked good (190-180-190-185-185-185), and the wheel bearing, in the words of my mechanic, was "toast". The car is much quieter now. This is the Good. Driving to work after picking the car up, driving down I-880 and hit a smallish pothole doing about 80mph. BAM! Left rear tire goes flat, tire smoke in rear view mirror. Aww f&^%#! Slow and pull off to the center divide. Get out and look at the damage. Wheel is cracked, tire is flat (duh). My first thought is "OK, these soft BMW wheel finally have had it on crappy 880." (I try to avoid that freeway as much as possible). This is the Bad. But, upon closer inspection, the rear caliper is in a non-normal position - up against the shock. Hmmm. And there's a small puddle of fluid there. Oh, you have got to be kidding me! Apparently the rear caliper bracket was not secure properly after there wheel bearing work, and it came loose (the pothole helped I'm sure). So I have to get the wheel off in order for the car to be able to roll up onto the flatbed, and there it is, a caliper-size hole in the wheel. This is the Ugly <shudder>. All I can say is, I'm glad I was going straight when it happened. So, needless to say, I get the car flatbedded back to the shop. Car needs the following replaced: shock, caliper & bracket, rotor, pads, backing plate, SS brake line, wheel and tire. I was going to get a new set of tires before winter anyway, so I'm going with a set of the new SO-3 (I'm paying for the 3 "extra" ones, of course) - I'll be able to post a review of the tires in a bit. Now, I haven't mentioned the shop, but most you know where I take my car for work. The owner of the shop was NOT the one working on the car, and is not the one directly responsible. But it's still his shop, and his employee that messed up, and is taking reponsibility. He is getting the car fixed, doing the work himself, and even gave me one of his cars (E30 M3) as a loaner. I think he was more upset about what happened than I was (once the shock wore off, I knew he would take care of the car, no problem). Oh, and driving home across the San Rafael bridge, a motorhome burned to the ground about 500 yards in front of me. I was stuck on the bridge for about an hour. I'm glad none of my friends were with me, I'd hate to have this bad luck rub off on them :-) So I took the opportunity to go home, have a beer, play with Nikolas (he's just started walking, and we just bought him his own pool to play in), and finish watching the 8 hours of Le Mans I had taped while we out of town last weekend. Anyway, thanks for reading this far. And in case you're curious, I will *still* continue to patronize and recommend this shop. Sometimes "stuff" happens, sometimes it's really bad, but it's being corrected and that's acceptable to me. Cheers, Jim Bassett 1998 M3/4 - wounded

Reply to: Jim Bassett

Top