E36M3 #1362

Thursday, June 07, 2001 12:33:47

This digest contains the following messages:

#1. Brake Rotors - from Scott Chan
#2. Re: Brake Rotors - from Neil Maller
#3. RE: [E36M3] Re: Spring/Shock Upgrade -- What else to change? - from Seth Thomas
#4. Re: [E36M3] Car Lift - from Andrew E. Kalman
#5. RE: [E36M3] Re: Brake Rotors - from Fadeev, Alex
#6. Re: [E36M3] NSX Challenge - from Steve Hazard
#7. Importing a Euro E46 M3... - from Juan Rico
#8. M3 Seat Covers -- Purchase info - from peter@guagenti.com
#9. Re: [E36M3] Re: Brake Rotors - from Neil Maller
#10. Re: [E36M3] M3 Seat Covers -- Purchase info - from peter@guagenti.com

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#1. Brake Rotors - from Scott Chan
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Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:02:27 -0700 From: Scott Chan <scottch@juniper.net> Subject: Brake Rotors Two words: "Brake Ducts" Now I admit I don't have much personal experience with E36 M3 rotors; I just pulled my first set yesterday (Euro-floaters). They lasted at least 14 days (8 races and 6 practice), plus an unknown amount with the previous car owner, using PF90 and Porterfield R4. I think that's pretty long rotor life, which I attribute to good ducting, mild pads and a low fat diet. They finally met their match at Laguna Seca when I swapped in some Hawk HT-8 pads and they instantly turned into tacos. I didn't have any Euro floater$ handy so I popped in some one-piece Brembos and R4s, we'll see how they work this weekend at Buttonwillow. -- Scott "Date: Wed, 06 Jun 2001 21:45:52 -0400 From: Rick Pocock <Rick@DovetailRacing.com> Subject: Brake Rotors The issue is warped brake rotors on my '98 M3/4. As a result of no more than eight or ten track sesssions, I've warped two sets of factory rotors in less than 4,000 miles. Many people have suggested changing to cross-drilled rotors. Many people have suggested changing to slotted rotors. Many people have suggested changing to floating rotors. My question is simply, has anyone found a rotor that's not prone to warping under normal track conditions? I'd really appreciate any experienced-based recommendations. Rick Pocock"

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#2. Re: Brake Rotors - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 11:14:52 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: Brake Rotors on 6/6/01 9:33 PM, Rick Pocock <Rick@DovetailRacing.com> wrote: > Let me apologize if this topic has been beat to death in this digest in the > past, as I suspect it has. Well of course it has! > However, if you can share any positive > experiences with me, I'd be very grateful. > > The issue is warped brake rotors on my '98 M3/4. As a result of no more > than eight or ten track sesssions, I've warped two sets of factory rotors > in less than 4,000 miles. Hey, you're doing pretty well. Some people warp them much quicker than that. > Many people have suggested changing to cross-drilled rotors. Won't help. Doesn't improve cooling, reduces friction area, makes rotors fragile (exception: Porsche rotors which are designed that way and cast with holes). > Many people have suggested changing to slotted rotors. Won't help. Doesn't improve cooling. Some pads (like the PF90, see below) don't like slots. > Many people have suggested changing to floating rotors. My experience: helps somewhat. This is my 5th season with them and I've never warped one. Others disagree, saying that rotors are consumables and that one should buy the cheapest reasonable quality and replace as needed. > My question is simply, has anyone found a rotor that's not prone to warping > under normal track conditions? I'd really appreciate any experienced-based > recommendations. It's not a rotor question. As I'm sure you know - given your SCCA experience - it's all about thermal management. My analysis is that when using street pads at the track - I'm assuming that's your case, you didn't say - you can get into a thermal runaway situation. The pads overheat and lose effectiveness, so you push harder on the brake pedal, then the brakes get even hotter but work even less, you press harder, rotors warp, fluid boils, mortality stares you in the face at the end of the straightaway... The two logical approaches: 1) Use brake components that can perform and survive at high temperature. - Consensus best brake pad for track day use: Performance Friction PF90, now being replaced by similar PF97 compound. Other options: Pagid Orange; Porterfield R4 (note: not R4S); Hawk Blue (if you don't mind flaming red hot metal particles embedding themselves in your wheels and paintwork). - Euro floating rotors, because in theory their design allows even expansion for less likelihood of dishing and warping when very hot. 2) Better cooling. - Duct your brakes. Easily the best kit is from Bimmerworld, see <http://www.bimmerworld.com/>. Or you can improvise your own. - Euro floating rotors, because they have better air inlet area than regular rotors. I've been using PF90 pads for several years now. No warping. A couple of seasons ago I also added ducting. My measurements with an IR pyrometer show front rotor temps reduced by about 200F. Now the brake pads last longer too. Of course one can also go the big brake kit route (Porsche big reds, Alcon, AP Racing, etc.) but that's expensive, and overkill for most people. Regards, Neil 96 M3

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#3. RE: [E36M3] Re: Spring/Shock Upgrade -- What else to change? - from Seth Thomas
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:29:19 -0400 From: "Seth Thomas" <porsche993@mindspring.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Spring/Shock Upgrade -- What else to change? "Neil says: You know, it's a funny thing considering the notoriously consumable RSMs, but I never hear of front strut bearing plates wearing out. Anyone?" Yes I have heard of them wearing out. Mine did on my LTW at around 50,000 miles. I looked at replacing them but it was going to cost me around $300 in parts or I think that was it. But for $400 I could get the GC camber plates. Since I track my car I was like why not. So the GC went in the car instead of the stock mounts. But I wouldn't not want these things for a street car. They are noisy and stiffen the ride of the front up. This is a track only mod. Seth Thomas www.m3ltw.com

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#4. Re: [E36M3] Car Lift - from Andrew E. Kalman
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Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 09:22:55 -0700 From: "Andrew E. Kalman" <aek@pumpkininc.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Car Lift Re: >I am in the market for car lift to be placed in a warehouse that is >currently being built (height is not an issue). The lift will not be >for commercial use, it will be "friends and family" only. I plan to >begin club racing in the next couple years and would like a better way >to work on the car myself to save money. (yes, that is practice for >justifying the purchase since it is very apparent, shhhhhh). I have = etc. I have installed two Eagle SS6000 drive-on lifts with just a large jack after having the freight guys lower it _gently_ to the ground outside the intended destination. Those kinds of lifts are much heavier than two-posters (it's the ramps that are so heavy -- posts themselves aren't too bad at all), so I wouldn't worry about the weight issue. As far as getting two-posters cheap, I recently discovered that my Jag mechanic gave his away (!) when he moved because his new location didn't have 3-phase power (and it had a couple of lifts already). So you may be able to get some good deals on lifts from a place that's closing or moving. Rotary seems to be the biggest name around here, Eagle is a pleasure to do business with, and there are many others. Regards, -- ______________________________________ Andrew E. Kalman, Ph.D. aek@pumpkininc.com

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#5. RE: [E36M3] Re: Brake Rotors - from Fadeev, Alex
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 12:45:42 -0400 From: "Fadeev, Alex" <alex.fadeev@verizon.com> Subject: RE: [E36M3] Re: Brake Rotors Neil Maller [mailto:neil.maller@gte.net] wrote: > > 1) Use brake components that can perform and survive at high > temperature. > - Consensus best brake pad for track day use: Performance Friction > PF90, now being replaced by similar PF97 compound. Other options: > Pagid Orange; Porterfield R4 (note: not R4S); Hawk Blue (if you > don't mind flaming red hot metal particles embedding themselves > in your wheels and paintwork). Neil is right on the money with the recommended track pads with one correction: Hawk Blues have been reformulated some time in 2000 and no longer throw off any flaming metal particles. They are some of the best and currently cheapest ($200 for all four corners) track pads out there. Don't be scared off Hawk Blues by yesteryear midwife tales ;-) alex f

Reply to: Fadeev, Alex

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#6. Re: [E36M3] NSX Challenge - from Steve Hazard
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 13:11:08 -0400 From: Steve Hazard <SHazard@nhboston.com> Subject: Re: [E36M3] NSX Challenge I'll tell you one place where a stock M3 will destroy an NSX (drivers being equal)....On any Autocross course! A guy I work with ran his 95 LY at our BMW Events on his street tires....the damn rear end is near impossible to keep planted...and when it starts to get light back there FORGET ABOUT CATCHING IT! That damn car spins out lightning fast.....I took his car out on some fun runs....the M3 wins hands down.... The other reason the car stinks is the way it is geared...2nd gear Redline is like 80MPH... so on most traditional Autocross circuits it never has a chance to get into the powerband in 2nd... Just my opinion :-0 Steve

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#7. Importing a Euro E46 M3... - from Juan Rico
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:15:06 -0700 From: Juan Rico <juan_rico@captionsinc.com> Subject: Importing a Euro E46 M3... This is a question for all you people who have been through the painstaking process of importing a Euro car into the US. I have the possibility of purchasing a new E46 M3 in Europe for a ridiculous price compared to the prices currently being paid here (in LA at least). I figure If I pay let's say 35K (don't ask me how, but I ain't kidding) for the car, M3's are selling here for 70-75K, so I have, (my God!) 40K to burn... This price though is for a Euro spec car... So here are my questions: A) Can I ask Munich to build me a US spec M3 or have all these been allotted already to the US market? Will they take an individual order on this basis? I have no clue as to whether this is even a possibility... B) What would it take to make a Euro E46 M3 meet US standards if I were to do it myself? How much $$$ am I looking at? What are the waiting periods? Would I still keep my warranty and would BMW NA recognize it as valid? C) How much would it cost to ship the car from Europe to the US? D) Lastly, is is worth it? Is it worth all the headaches, paperwork, running about, the waiting periods, etc...? Before I start to even consider this seriously I need to know some of these answers. Please email me privately... Juan.

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#8. M3 Seat Covers -- Purchase info - from peter@guagenti.com
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:19:18 US/Pacific From: peter@guagenti.com Subject: M3 Seat Covers -- Purchase info Okay folks, thanks to a fellow lister, I got the information for the seat covers. I just ordered my pair, and spoke to the retailer about cutting us a deal. The regular price is $129, and the original group purchase price was $109. This is not a group purchase per-se, as I am not organizing anything, but if Supreme Seat Covers gets 10-15 orders from us by Wednesday of next week, he'll honor the original group purchase price. All you have to do is call them up and place your order. If we hit our numbers on Wednesday, he'll immediately give us the discount. This is a pretty fair deal, as he explained their process to me and it is tedious to say the least. Information is below. I've already ordered and another lister did as well, so we're already part of the way there. > Part number: BMW3259329 > Color: Black with M stripes > Description: 325 M-3 coupe L/B sportseat with Lumbar H > Unit price: 109.00 > Supreme Seat Covers > 12307 S.W. 130th street > Miami, FL 33186 > Phone: 305-256-2986 > Fax: 305-256-8278 Enjoy. - peterg ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using HiSpeed Technologies Webmail. http://www.hispeed.com

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#9. Re: [E36M3] Re: Brake Rotors - from Neil Maller
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Date: Thu, 07 Jun 2001 12:27:58 -0500 From: Neil Maller <neil.maller@gte.net> Subject: Re: [E36M3] Re: Brake Rotors on 6/7/01 11:45 AM, Fadeev, Alex at alex.fadeev@verizon.com wrote: > Neil is right on the money with the recommended track pads with one > correction: > Hawk Blues have been reformulated some time in 2000 and no longer throw off > any flaming metal particles. They are some of the best and currently > cheapest ($200 for all four corners) track pads out there. Don't be scared > off Hawk Blues by yesteryear midwife tales ;-) Alex, Thanks for the update. Neil 96 M3

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#10. Re: [E36M3] M3 Seat Covers -- Purchase info - from peter@guagenti.com
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Date: Thu, 7 Jun 2001 10:28:28 US/Pacific From: peter@guagenti.com Subject: Re: [E36M3] M3 Seat Covers -- Purchase info As I've already received questions... Some follow-up on this -- as far as I know the seat covers are available in a few colors and with or without the embroidered M-stripes. Talk to the seat cover place for more details. Overall the fit and finish on these are great. When I first saw them I thought the person had re-upholstered their seats. It wasn't until closer examination that I figured out they were seat covers. Other people can chime in on their like or dislike now that they own them... -p ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- This message was sent using HiSpeed Technologies Webmail. http://www.hispeed.com

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